Alec Empire Talks To NTR About Origins Of Breakcore!
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by Alec » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:20 am
"Like working only from analogue desks with distortion on everything?
That would be depressing."
Can I ask you with which consoles you have worked so far? And which ones do you find 'depressing'? I get the feeling you don't know what I am talking about here because you actually have no experience with the technology. I am not saying one thing is good and the other is bad.
But what I am pointing out is that real breakcore must be a physical experience. This energy is only produced by creating harmonic distortion because it actually has a powerful effect on our brain...which then translates into movement. I am not saying that laptops will never be able to generate this, but so far they haven't because the technology hasn't advanced enough. It looks as though it won't move into that direction anymore.
"okay, alec wants to be regarded as the elvis of electronic music, that's fine, that's not unfair, but thinking of breakcore as a localized underground scene is nonsense nowadays, that is not the reality anymore, actually, what is underground with the advent of internet in our lives?"
The Elvis of electronic music? What do you mean by that? I hope you don't think Elvis Presley had made the first Rock'n'Roll record ever.
Connecting via the internet is all fine but if you fail to build a scene with real people who come to the events and experience this sound together and unite, you didn't get the idea in the first place.
"wtf people making breakcore on laptops are faking it???the sound should come from hardware?
wtf is happening?its almost 2010 fuck hardware. i like some of the stuff atr did,but come on,they were groundbreaking back in the 90s.and thats nice"
The only advantage of software are the editing and programming facilities. There must be a way to have those combined with the more punchy and aggressive sound of the hardware, but nobody has so far found it. I change my opinion the second I hear it.
Also ATR never really did breakcore, pure breakcore.
"and mp3 might not be the aim of creating music (i think that's about to change, but live music is still the aim of music producers) but it is the biggest menace to the entertainment industry... wasn't that playing a big part in that manifesto?"
mp3 might be a threat to labels and musicians because of piracy and how it makes their profits shrink, but that only goes for mainstream music.
The problem is that breakcore does not work with mp3 format because mp3s filter the essential frequencies (low bass and everything over 14kHz), the compression of mp3s also cuts off the peaks, the attacks of the drums, the punch gets lost or compromised.
This is what makes our bodies react to sound. Since mp3 the breakcore scene has gotten smaller and smaller, mainly because less people "feel" something when they listen to laptop mp3 'breakcore'.
Back then a DJ with vinyl records could blow away a mainstream rock band. This was the threat. The independent distribution which was set up by the techno underground was a financial threat the the music industry.
I think we all talking about different things here when we discuss the term breakcore. I am talking about what makes breakcore breakcore: the sound, the effect it has on the listener, the reason why the genre came up, the politics, etc... Most out here are talking about the 'spirit' of breakcore, and this is why you feel somehow offended by what I say.
The main reason why I take the time and write this because I hope you guys get it together one day...I believe that there has to be a new generation, and the scene as it is right now is in deep trouble...let's be honest...it is dying a slow death because it has isolated itself, it is just virtual...and therefore is impotent.
I am not your enemy.
Alec Empire
That would be depressing."
Can I ask you with which consoles you have worked so far? And which ones do you find 'depressing'? I get the feeling you don't know what I am talking about here because you actually have no experience with the technology. I am not saying one thing is good and the other is bad.
But what I am pointing out is that real breakcore must be a physical experience. This energy is only produced by creating harmonic distortion because it actually has a powerful effect on our brain...which then translates into movement. I am not saying that laptops will never be able to generate this, but so far they haven't because the technology hasn't advanced enough. It looks as though it won't move into that direction anymore.
"okay, alec wants to be regarded as the elvis of electronic music, that's fine, that's not unfair, but thinking of breakcore as a localized underground scene is nonsense nowadays, that is not the reality anymore, actually, what is underground with the advent of internet in our lives?"
The Elvis of electronic music? What do you mean by that? I hope you don't think Elvis Presley had made the first Rock'n'Roll record ever.
Connecting via the internet is all fine but if you fail to build a scene with real people who come to the events and experience this sound together and unite, you didn't get the idea in the first place.
"wtf people making breakcore on laptops are faking it???the sound should come from hardware?
wtf is happening?its almost 2010 fuck hardware. i like some of the stuff atr did,but come on,they were groundbreaking back in the 90s.and thats nice"
The only advantage of software are the editing and programming facilities. There must be a way to have those combined with the more punchy and aggressive sound of the hardware, but nobody has so far found it. I change my opinion the second I hear it.
Also ATR never really did breakcore, pure breakcore.
"and mp3 might not be the aim of creating music (i think that's about to change, but live music is still the aim of music producers) but it is the biggest menace to the entertainment industry... wasn't that playing a big part in that manifesto?"
mp3 might be a threat to labels and musicians because of piracy and how it makes their profits shrink, but that only goes for mainstream music.
The problem is that breakcore does not work with mp3 format because mp3s filter the essential frequencies (low bass and everything over 14kHz), the compression of mp3s also cuts off the peaks, the attacks of the drums, the punch gets lost or compromised.
This is what makes our bodies react to sound. Since mp3 the breakcore scene has gotten smaller and smaller, mainly because less people "feel" something when they listen to laptop mp3 'breakcore'.
Back then a DJ with vinyl records could blow away a mainstream rock band. This was the threat. The independent distribution which was set up by the techno underground was a financial threat the the music industry.
I think we all talking about different things here when we discuss the term breakcore. I am talking about what makes breakcore breakcore: the sound, the effect it has on the listener, the reason why the genre came up, the politics, etc... Most out here are talking about the 'spirit' of breakcore, and this is why you feel somehow offended by what I say.
The main reason why I take the time and write this because I hope you guys get it together one day...I believe that there has to be a new generation, and the scene as it is right now is in deep trouble...let's be honest...it is dying a slow death because it has isolated itself, it is just virtual...and therefore is impotent.
I am not your enemy.
Alec Empire
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by ErotiCore SteNch » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:20 am
The only advantage of software are the editing and programming facilities. There must be a way to have those combined with the more punchy and aggressive sound of the hardware, but nobody has so far found it. I change my opinion the second I hear it.
Also ATR never really did breakcore, pure breakcore.
i didnt talk about the advantages,just say were almost in 2010 shit is moving fast,theres alot of great software to add punch and nastyness to sounds.
and FUCK GENRES,and fuck people who create genres.
REVOLUTION ACTION cunts
FUCK THE POLICE
Also ATR never really did breakcore, pure breakcore.
i didnt talk about the advantages,just say were almost in 2010 shit is moving fast,theres alot of great software to add punch and nastyness to sounds.
and FUCK GENRES,and fuck people who create genres.
REVOLUTION ACTION cunts
FUCK THE POLICE
by MarkyPoo » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:13 am
Alec wrote:Can I ask you with which consoles you have worked so far? And which ones do you find 'depressing'? I get the feeling you don't know what I am talking about here because you actually have no experience with the technology. I am not saying one thing is good and the other is bad.
But what I am pointing out is that real breakcore must be a physical experience. This energy is only produced by creating harmonic distortion because it actually has a powerful effect on our brain...which then translates into movement. I am not saying that laptops will never be able to generate this, but so far they haven't because the technology hasn't advanced enough. It looks as though it won't move into that direction anymore.
I think that my experience with or without a technology has hardly any relevance to whether or not I am capable of deciding whether the breakcore experience I've engaged in is "real" or not. You have taken very relative and undefinable statements and treated them as concrete. Inadvertently you HAVE treated one thing as good and one as bad by referring to one as a REAL experience and one as a unreal experience. Some people who may have taken part in the "unreal" experience may find what you say about it insulting via condescension and completely false.
I don't really need to bring up the equally "physical" processes which occur in both the creation of digital and analogue music (not to say that there aren't differences) because I'm going to assume you were speaking of the sonic difference which, by the way, is also a RELATIVE experience and to some is either insignificant or incapable of being differentiated while listening.
I guess I should have just said that whether something is real or not is relative to the person who is experiencing it and that through attempting to constrict what is or is not real you have made a condescending jerk out of yourself.
I've worked with alot of tape manipulation and turntabalism if that adds any merit to what I've said.
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by cuttingagent » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:48 am
Alec wrote:"i find it interesting that he says all this stuff about how what he did back in the day was better than what anyone else does now"
I said "we", not "I"...and I was talking about all producers putting records out from 1993-2001. That is a slight difference.
Also this interview was about the past...this is why I talked about the past. I don't see my work from back then as relevant or 'important' at all, that's why I moved on long time ago - I feel I have done my bit back then.
(When do you ever hear me talk about that time? right not all, because noone really cares that much anymore)
And yes, a hardware sampler and an analogue desk is way cheaper than a laptop with software....just trust me on this, if the laptop guys would do the same music but would produce it with these tools, it would sound much much more powerful over any PA.
calling me a fascist because I say my honest opinion in an interview, doesn't improve your music at all.
the original 'breakcore' was done like this, nobody keeps you from creating your own genre name ....call it fruity loops macbook ableton mp3 core or whatever...
jesus...I'm glad I am not part of that scene anymore...
and for the record I do like some laptop based music, but I just wouldn't call it breakcore...that's all...
all the best,
Alec Empire
JUST IN CASE that really truly is totally alec empire saying some stuff,
holy fucking shit. i never thought mr. empire would ever read anything i said, much less get pissed about it. i'm pretty starstruck right now, cause if it wasnt for ATR, i never would have decided i need to be a musician. i'm a little surprised he wouldn't realize i'm mostly taking the piss and speculating here, and that me saying 'fascist' was clearly a pisstake, i hate to have to explain my own joke but it's only funny cause i said it about an antifascist group/person. and no it doesn't improve my music at all. saying it out loud through a vocoder hopefully would, though.
an analogue setup might be cheaper than a laptop and software. of course, most of us steal our software.
that setup may sound stronger *on a PA*, but that not really what you said.
welcome to ihatebreakcore where shit is talked, piss is taken, and opinions are shared and shat on. luckily i can disagree with someone's opinion, even if they're from a band who are my heroes. i'd hate to have to interpret interviews as scripture.
([agent.)]
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by Feutus Lapdance » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:49 am
Just want to say...Thanx Alec, for the stuf jou did. Hoppe to see jou on Crackbeats 1 day...
1 of my Superhero,s that brougt me to the Underground (the other is DMDN and Vsares)
Love....
1 of my Superhero,s that brougt me to the Underground (the other is DMDN and Vsares)
Love....
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by ladyscraper » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:52 pm
this is all fairly interesting!
i totally agree with the whole analogue verses digital distortion getting people moving, if you want a kick drum or break or whatever to really get people fighting (in a good way) in a club - it does seem to be the ones that have been put through some kinda analogue process that manage it. and totally never play off mp3s, use wavs at least.
the current state of breakcore is farly dia, and i do believe this is due to people thinking its easy to produce using ableton fruity etc. i think you can produce music in these programs that sounds just like breakcore but stick it in a club through a decent rig and it will fall seriously short of the mark. This is just my personal opinion, i dont like listening to breakcore at home - but you cant beat it through a massive system when its produced right. if you havnt got a desk, amps or pedals. sample some old metal, punk from a vinyl, not just riffs but, hits and stabs from ends of verses etc or the odd beet down. layer it up it def works!
the most important thing i ever learnt was to produce music quietly. if i find myself getting excited (nodding my head and smiling alot) writing a tune at a low volume it is working, and when you turn it up in a club it will slay!. And you totally gotta perform if your playing a gig, dont just stand there looking board people will feed off you if you shout, run around - make a tit outta yourself first then everyone will follow.
maybe a bit off point by the end.... haha but there is def a way we can move it forward, but things have gotta change a bit, limitations are so important, having a laptop with every conceivable cracked vst installed is very rarely gonna produce good music.
wooord
i totally agree with the whole analogue verses digital distortion getting people moving, if you want a kick drum or break or whatever to really get people fighting (in a good way) in a club - it does seem to be the ones that have been put through some kinda analogue process that manage it. and totally never play off mp3s, use wavs at least.
the current state of breakcore is farly dia, and i do believe this is due to people thinking its easy to produce using ableton fruity etc. i think you can produce music in these programs that sounds just like breakcore but stick it in a club through a decent rig and it will fall seriously short of the mark. This is just my personal opinion, i dont like listening to breakcore at home - but you cant beat it through a massive system when its produced right. if you havnt got a desk, amps or pedals. sample some old metal, punk from a vinyl, not just riffs but, hits and stabs from ends of verses etc or the odd beet down. layer it up it def works!
the most important thing i ever learnt was to produce music quietly. if i find myself getting excited (nodding my head and smiling alot) writing a tune at a low volume it is working, and when you turn it up in a club it will slay!. And you totally gotta perform if your playing a gig, dont just stand there looking board people will feed off you if you shout, run around - make a tit outta yourself first then everyone will follow.
maybe a bit off point by the end.... haha but there is def a way we can move it forward, but things have gotta change a bit, limitations are so important, having a laptop with every conceivable cracked vst installed is very rarely gonna produce good music.
wooord
by hatchgo » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:12 pm
you know, you're right, but just like some other genres, breakcore is still providing a fertile field for producers, and the results are still interesting, its not the same, and it is different, but I don't think it's time to stop, or to relabel it...
Not only mp3, but every digital format filters the sound. But i think mp3 would only promote something, and it is somewhat more effective than physical formats (in terms of promoting), and it goes beyond radio... of course its not an experience, but i think it's still necessary...
I do see more people getting to know breakcore and also organizing breakcore events, that might not be the reality in other countries, but I really don't see the isolation... You can say breakcore is growing out of context, but it is still the underground, I know it could be worse...
Alec wrote:The problem is that breakcore does not work with mp3 format because mp3s filter the essential frequencies (low bass and everything over 14kHz), the compression of mp3s also cuts off the peaks, the attacks of the drums, the punch gets lost or compromised.
This is what makes our bodies react to sound. Since mp3 the breakcore scene has gotten smaller and smaller, mainly because less people "feel" something when they listen to laptop mp3 'breakcore'.
Not only mp3, but every digital format filters the sound. But i think mp3 would only promote something, and it is somewhat more effective than physical formats (in terms of promoting), and it goes beyond radio... of course its not an experience, but i think it's still necessary...
Alec wrote:The main reason why I take the time and write this because I hope you guys get it together one day...I believe that there has to be a new generation, and the scene as it is right now is in deep trouble...let's be honest...it is dying a slow death because it has isolated itself, it is just virtual...and therefore is impotent.
I am not your enemy.
Alec Empire
I do see more people getting to know breakcore and also organizing breakcore events, that might not be the reality in other countries, but I really don't see the isolation... You can say breakcore is growing out of context, but it is still the underground, I know it could be worse...
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by Feutus Lapdance » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:04 pm
hatchgo wrote:
I do see more people getting to know breakcore and also organizing breakcore events, that might not be the reality in other countries, but I really don't see the isolation... You can say breakcore is growing out of context, but it is still the underground, I know it could be worse...
Jea it could become meanstream......and used to sel cars and shit.
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by PEPCORE » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:44 pm
Feutus Lapdance wrote:hatchgo wrote:
I do see more people getting to know breakcore and also organizing breakcore events, that might not be the reality in other countries, but I really don't see the isolation... You can say breakcore is growing out of context, but it is still the underground, I know it could be worse...
Jea it could become meanstream......and used to sel cars and shit.
Lol, meanstream.
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by Warpsmasher » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:07 pm
I think computers are essential and basically unbeatable for sequencing and rearranging beats now, but soundwise, yes, pedals for the win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK14RHwR_gE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK14RHwR_gE
by hatchgo » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:00 pm
PEPCORE wrote:Feutus Lapdance wrote:hatchgo wrote:
I do see more people getting to know breakcore and also organizing breakcore events, that might not be the reality in other countries, but I really don't see the isolation... You can say breakcore is growing out of context, but it is still the underground, I know it could be worse...
Jea it could become meanstream......and used to sel cars and shit.
Lol, meanstream.
i was thinking about neonazi, but that would be equally mean
godknows what kind of equipment they use there
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by Feutus Lapdance » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:34 am
Im a terible dyslectic and my englisch is stil likke a 2jear old. 
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by Babylon Disco » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:46 am
Alec wrote:The only advantage of software are the editing and programming facilities. There must be a way to have those combined with the more punchy and aggressive sound of the hardware, but nobody has so far found it. I change my opinion the second I hear it.
Also ATR never really did breakcore, pure breakcore.
The MAJOR advantage of software is the price. Most of us are regular working-class kids. Shit, I haven't had a steady job in six years now, how would I be able to pay for a new compressor, a second distortion pedal or paying for repairs?
I can get a computer, even a laptop, for next to nothing and pirate the hardware. A cheap computer and a 80$ midi-controller, that's it.
Alec wrote:I am not your enemy.
Agreed, but you are a bit of an ass. You talk about politics, but this is politics too, this is class! I can't afford hardware, I can't afford to tour, I can't afford shit. You and I have been over this before, Alec. The scene is digital because it is poor, the internet is the cheapest way of actually doing _something_, _anything_. And agreed, we can only overcome this by actually creating a scene in the real world, but let's not forget the value of the virtual world. Thanks to it I've been signed, gotten shows and found bandmembers. The virtual world affecting the actual world. Not bad, eh?
Oh, and I'm not your enemy either. I've got a massive DHR collection including alot of rare stuff like midiwar tapes and shit, so I'm not taking a shot at you for the fun of it. I love you, man... just don't be a dick.
www.Babylon-Disco.com , biotch.<br>
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