Stop 'just doing something random'

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Stop 'just doing something random'

Postby kosmonavt » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:23 pm

Listening to the contest, most of the songs (specially the breaks) are completely shit.
To all people who just downloaded fruity loops a week ago and downloaded a bunch of samples from here:

To make breaks is not 'just screwing around'. Think about them, and listen to them, and enhance them if they sound like shit so they do not sound like 'krggtsoppsdsfhkdjhfkhsdjhfksdk'.
Don't just screw around with the bars in the sequencer like that, have some logic in it, even guys like Dev/Null and such, as chaotic as their music may sound, think about their breaks.

Don't use the excuse that it's 'noisecore' because it's just noise. That would be a bit too easy wouldn't it?

Copy pasting breaks+dblue glitch or whatever vst DOESN'T SOUND COOL. specially dBlue glich is complete shit because it's just too easy, a default, sequence of 'screwing up my breaks' effects.
Making music, including breakcore isn't that easy.

Sequence ALL your breaks yourself.

Practice makes perfect.
Try to imitate breaks from songs that you like, and make variations, after a while it will start to come naturally, at least that's my personal experience.

Also try to discover as much artists as possible, not just the Hungarian album by Venetian Snares. The more inspiration sources, the better.

Always keep in your mind:
Does it sound like bullshit noise because i just made this in 5 minutes which is even shorter than the whole track length?

Yes? Start over.

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Re: Stop 'just doing something random'

Postby Stazma » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:02 pm

kosmonavt wrote:Listening to the contest, most of the songs (specially the breaks) are completely shit.
To all people who just downloaded fruity loops a week ago and downloaded a bunch of samples from here:

To make breaks is not 'just screwing around'. Think about them, and listen to them, and enhance them if they sound like shit so they do not sound like 'krggtsoppsdsfhkdjhfkhsdjhfksdk'.
Don't just screw around with the bars in the sequencer like that, have some logic in it, even guys like Dev/Null and such, as chaotic as their music may sound, think about their breaks.

Don't use the excuse that it's 'noisecore' because it's just noise. That would be a bit too easy wouldn't it?

Copy pasting breaks+dblue glitch or whatever vst DOESN'T SOUND COOL. specially dBlue glich is complete shit because it's just too easy, a default, sequence of 'screwing up my breaks' effects.
Making music, including breakcore isn't that easy.

Sequence ALL your breaks yourself.

Practice makes perfect.
Try to imitate breaks from songs that you like, and make variations, after a while it will start to come naturally, at least that's my personal experience.

Also try to discover as much artists as possible, not just the Hungarian album by Venetian Snares. The more inspiration sources, the better.

Always keep in your mind:
Does it sound like bullshit noise because i just made this in 5 minutes which is even shorter than the whole track length?

Yes? Start over.


Just 100% agree !

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Postby Infekkted » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:10 pm

Totally agree.

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Postby DJ DL-44 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:44 pm

2 Avant Garde 4 U.
But to be serious, it is suprising how low of a tolerance breakcore producers have for people just getting started in music, and they always seem to make broad statements with no specific target such as this, as opposed to offering real critisism on songs. I am not saying the things you are saying are not true, because they are, dblue glitch sucks and is telltale as hell, and people try to get way more complicated than they can manage before they can even write a decent jungle break. But at the same time, there is a degree of animosity towards simple, straigtforward songs, and there is a lack of constructive critisism when it comes to songs.
Generally people only bother to say something if they really like things or really hate things, and both those opinions require one sentence to express. Spend the extra two minutes telling people what they did wrong, and try to find something they did that worked.
You early music sucked too.

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Postby divtech » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:32 pm

Eh, everyone's gotta learn somehow, plus I don't think its easy to teach someone humility, generally it takes genuine experience to realize you're not the shit just because you can download a program. I can tell you right now that I thought some of my old tracks were much better than i view them now, even through criticism.

Its for that reason I don't mind hearing shit producers, hopefully some of them can contribute to a talented community in the future. While I agree with the constructive criticism, I wont condone the constant discouragement new producers receive in the one place where they're supposed to be collaborating and learning.

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Postby divtech » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:40 pm

DJ DL-44 wrote:2 Avant Garde 4 U.
But to be serious, it is suprising how low of a tolerance breakcore producers have for people just getting started in music, and they always seem to make broad statements with no specific target such as this, as opposed to offering real critisism on songs. I am not saying the things you are saying are not true, because they are, dblue glitch sucks and is telltale as hell, and people try to get way more complicated than they can manage before they can even write a decent jungle break. But at the same time, there is a degree of animosity towards simple, straigtforward songs, and there is a lack of constructive critisism when it comes to songs.
Generally people only bother to say something if they really like things or really hate things, and both those opinions require one sentence to express. Spend the extra two minutes telling people what they did wrong, and try to find something they did that worked.
You early music sucked too.


I don't think people care enough to give constructive advice to just anyone who puts out a shit track, there's far too many of them.

Maybe a better suggestions to beginning producers is to wait to release songs or even to show them off. I wish I would've done that.

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Postby robotrobot » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:53 pm

You all have some great insight and advice bit why the hell do people keep on throwing dblue glitch under the bus? Sure if a noob
just uses the randomized default setting when the vet loads they are going to get a now very recognizable noobish shit sound but the vst is far from shit.

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Postby divtech » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:19 pm

robotrobot wrote:You all have some great insight and advice bit why the hell do people keep on throwing dblue glitch under the bus? Sure if a noob
just uses the randomized default setting when the vet loads they are going to get a now very recognizable noobish shit sound but the vst is far from shit.


its too general for practical application when producing, I will use it live for specific functions but it just isn't that useful for composition.

I think its the fact that is set up as a sequencer that makes it too bulky; I could suggest splitting it up and using the components but usually there are other onboard effects or more useful plugins to do the specific tasks it generalizes.

to each his own however.

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Postby DJ DL-44 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:44 pm

Yeah the problem with glitch is that you have to MIDI learn a new pattern every eight bars or else you repeat an effects pattern and repeated effects patterns are what generally breed the sucking.
Also that tape stop is really telltale.

And yeah Div, not releasing everything you write is definitely good advice. You should always make a few things with a new technique to experiment because you will almost never make a new technique work first go.

Not acting like you are any good also helps, pretension and amateurishness do not go well together.

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Postby SweetPeaPod » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:31 am

Div++

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Postby Stazma » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:52 am

Once again i'm agree with the other post.
My regret about my music is that i've put all my old track on free download on the net and at this time I wav a shitty noob producer.
When I listen to some old track that I have put on this website for example I just want to delete everything hehehe.

But clearly evrybody (exept complete genius) have to pass trought this experimental step, make some program experiment. Sometime on this forum and even sometime on my email, some people ask me "how to make breakcore". I say the same thing everytime : try to make decent Jungle, decent Hardcore, decent whatever and when you can do that start to break it, mix it, mash it all the way.

By the way, have fun, make shit but please don't do the same mistake than me hehehe ... don't release it ;-)

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Postby robotrobot » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:30 pm

divtech wrote:
its too general for practical application when producing, I will use it live for specific functions but it just isn't that useful for composition.

I think its the fact that is set up as a sequencer that makes it too bulky; I could suggest splitting it up and using the components but usually there are other onboard effects or more useful plugins to do the specific tasks it generalizes.

to each his own however.


Do you knoiw of a more useful retrigger vste than glitch's built in one? I use renoise and yes, retriggering with controls on the timing and panning is possible with tracker commands and precious time, but what I love about glitch with renoise is I can simply automate glitch's timing, mix, and panning sliders which saves a substantial amount of time while retaining full control of what I'd like to do with retriggering. The same thing with glitch's stretcher and shuffler, with assignable automation you save a lot of time but have full control of sound. I have yet to find a retrigger app and shuffler app that gives me this kind of control as glitch pretty much has an automatable slider for each effect's knob. Long story short, if you can point me to a better retrigger and suffler with this type of control, it would be helpful, thank you.

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Postby SweetPeaPod » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:47 pm

i've def posted a lot of older stuff after the fact. Looking back at the tracks, no, they're not insane or impressive by any means, but they held great meaning to what was going on around me.. i genuinely can listen to these shitty tracks and enjoy them 'cause they mean something to me.
I post them to preserve the memory.
i'm not concerned with showing 'only the best/up-to-date-techniques'. And if you've heard what i do, you know exactly what i'm talking about.
maybe 'cause my goal is not to be a super star. i fully enjoy the control i have over beats. the whole reason i started spinning and producing was to create exactly what i want to hear.
i also know that outside listeners hear these tracks and just think they're shit...
which they are, but that's cool 'cause no one's making you listen to my shit.
and i will continue to do whatever the hell i want... you should too.

i love what i do. That's the whole point.
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Postby Infekkted » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:03 pm

truth is I got way too bored to write more yesterday.

DJ-DL you are right, however, as most people above said, site's flooded with random things, and not uploading your first attempts is far more than wise, means you've understood that you're still making your first steps and that there would be no probable constructive criticism to what you do. This scene is diy, but I still have doubts if anyone would for example record their first rehearsal with a band and upload it on the internet. I know I have done the same thing and I am still doing it, had a lot of very nice and welcome feedback and encourage everybody to keep this community growing and doing the same, though my first tracks were only entries at contests and they were not my first 2 tracks. They were commented because I had spent time on them and this could be understood although they were shit. I agree again with kosmonavt because, from my own experience, people CAN tell the difference between someone who is not taking themselves seriously and is trying to get credit from it and from someone who is trying to create out of love for it but is still new.

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Postby kosmonavt » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:28 pm

Infekkted wrote:.. but I still have doubts if anyone would for example record their first rehearsal with a band and upload it on the internet.


OK I have to admit i did it:

www.myspace.com/neoliberalen

We only practiced once BUT we got to open for Agent Orange..! pretty rad huh?

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