so who invented breakcore anyways?

[pimperteen Profile Website]

yeah, some say it was alec empire, he originated the lazy use of using the amen break in every track

Two things you need to realise sweetheart:

1) The listening "public" don't give a shit which god damn break you use
2) It's not what you use, but how you use it. An adage I thought you might appreciate, no?

Oh and stfu about the amen break already you're as boring as it is.

[matt bleak Profile Website]

excatly - how could 3 sets of artists from different parts of world make same thing not hearing the other

yeah and they were all living in the west..we are not talking pre-internet here nor were they living in 3rd world countries!

also, this is from one of alec empire's latest myspace blogs in reference to some remastered stuff he has coming out soon..

"...Another project which Alec has been getting ready is the remastered tracks from the
legendary Bass Terror era, the time before digital hard-core started and Empire and

his gang pretty much invented breakcore (yes, we are talking 1991-1993 here!).

A lot of unreleased music which was considered "too extreme" by former label Force Inc. Music Works.

Alec:" We are in the middle of putting the concept together. This is excellent stuff we got here.
We will bang that out before Christmas - I swear...."

Some of the original EPs which were released only on vinyl go for about 200 dollars on ebay,
if someone has them...."

*note : bold-type / emphasis added by me
**the above quote from the alec empire blog is what got me thinking about this whole subject matter.

[johndecision Profile]

there was an informative conversation on this subjest over on the c8 site that was started by a datacide article. scud and shizuo did a lot of stuff together in the early dhr/ambush days, there were very strong connections between these labels.

a lot of stuff can be retrospectively labelled "breakcore" but i think the first recorded time the term was used is possibly this record http://www.discogs.com/release/81297

there's no reason that bloody fist and dhr/london/berlin would have needed to hear each other to come up with the idea of using an amiga or other 8-bit sampler/sequencer to make jungle with, which is basically what all the old stuff is.

also its worth mentioning that Destroyer and Squeeze The Trigger are both compilations of previous releases that alec empire did on force inc and it's sublabels, as well as some of the early dhr singles. in fact squeeze the trigger features the oldest material of the 2

[cuttingagent Profile]

"breakcore" [the best argument ever, wtf is breakcore anyway? Wink], but mostly industrial hardcore/speedcore with breaks, Laughing...

lol that's like saying this isn't drum n' bass, just some drums. and some bass =)

[somebedroomdj Profile Website]

Maybe White Breaks?

But yeah, kind of hard to say where something started when you can't really say for sure what "it" is. If you just wanna talk about people using breaks aggressively, then couldn't you really say the origin lies somewhere in UK hardcore from 89-90 or somewhere thereabouts?

[matt bleak Profile Website]

If you just wanna talk about people using breaks aggressively, then couldn't you really say the origin lies somewhere in UK hardcore from 89-90 or somewhere thereabouts?

nope, possibly more likely it originated somewhere in the bronx in the late 70s...thing called hip hop remember?? maybe the earlier stuff wasn't as aggressive as some breakcore but i don't think people like BDP were smiling when they made tracks like 'criminal minded' etc etc...or if u wanna get technical and say 'yeah but they were using turntables for their breaks' then i think you can look no further than the breaks / instrumentation / sampling used on several of the early public enemy LPs where they were mostly using an akai sampler to create their beats and stuff.

[producer_snafu Profile Website]

yeah, some say it was alec empire, he originated the lazy use of using the amen break in every track

Two things you need to realise sweetheart:

1) The listening "public" don't give a shit which god damn break you use
2) It's not what you use, but how you use it. An adage I thought you might appreciate, no?

Oh and stfu about the amen break already you're as boring as it is.

listen toots,

1, i gives a fuck about any general public likes or dislikes, it's the fellow producers using a break that is broke to death that has annoyed me.

no one i know is doing anything new that Remarc, Dylan, Tech Itch, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares and The Flashbulb hasn't already done with the amen break.

:emoticon of you kissing my left ass cheek:

2. i don't appreciate most tracks that abuse the amen, as you may know i don't care for the amen and i feel it is used as a crutch.

there are thousands of breaks out there and everyone still wants to sound like breakcore made in the 90's that "most of the general public didn't even care for or give a fuck about.

not only are there thousands of breaks that are not the amen but there is also the option of making your own breaks with single shots.

but god forbid that right?

i mean who could even fathom the concept of doing so?

not You

:emoticon of you kissing my right ass cheek:


GTFO with yer stfu, obviously i wasn't boring enough for you to fall asleep and not reply to my post.

[SilicosiS Profile]

pwnd.

This forum rocks.

[Benn Virus Profile]

correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am)
but I don't think the question is who invented breakcore, I think the question is: what is the question? nah, seriously: I think we should rather ask HOW breakcore developed until it was what it is now.

so here's my theory:
It was all a chain reaction, that started with The Winston's "Amen Brother" back then. Later, as the UK "Hardcore" (normal Break Beat) developed, someone started to sample the Amen Break, with developed to DnB. Later a crazy guy named Richard D. James (Wikipedia said, Aphex Twin was the first with those kind of drum programming) first who started to break the beats really hard and invented Drill 'n' Bass, while, at the same time, Alec Empire, DJ Scud and all the ther pre-breakcore artists started to combine break beat/drum 'n' bass with punk and hardcore (the real hardcore), and somehow drill 'n' bass also influenced the pre-breakcore artists. later, someone succesfully combined all those elements, and breakcore was born. and after that a certain guy named Aaron Funk showed up and he got the mascot of breakcore. maybe he should lend the costume from Mochipet.

crazy theory isn't it.

[djtheblade Profile Website]

yeah, some say it was alec empire, he originated the lazy use of using the amen break in every track

Two things you need to realise sweetheart:

1) The listening "public" don't give a shit which god damn break you use
2) It's not what you use, but how you use it. An adage I thought you might appreciate, no?

Oh and stfu about the amen break already you're as boring as it is.

listen toots,

1, i gives a fuck about any general public likes or dislikes, it's the fellow producers using break that is broke to death that has annoyed me.

no one i know is doing anything new that Remark, Dylan, Tech Itch, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares and The Flashbulb hasn't already done with the amen break.

:emoticon of you kissing my left ass cheek:

2. i don't appreciate most tracks that abuse the amen, as you may know i don't care for the amen and i feel it is used as a crutch.

there are thousands of breaks out there and everyone still wants to sound like breakcore made in the 90's that "most of the general public didn't even care for or give a fuck about.

not only are there thousands of breaks that are not the amen but there is also the option of making your own breaks with single shots.

but god forbid that right?

i mean who could even fathom the concept of doing so?

not You

:emoticon of you kissing my right ass cheek:


GTFO with yer stfu, obviously i wasn't boring enough for you to fall asleep and not reply to my post.

I don't believe anyone on here has doubted the contributions of the afore mentioned artists in re-working the Amen Break. However, your jihad against that one specific break IS tiresome, particularly because people will continue to use the Amen, precisely because people like it. You might not enjoy it but clearly others do. Yes, it crops up in hundreds of new songs every day, but then so do countless other breaks, kicks, samples and techniques.

I'll confess, rarely do I hear new Breakcore that is genuinely pushing forward a new idea, but then why should it have to? It's like saying rock music sucks because they're still using guitars, therefore I'm going to declare holy war on all guitar music because I'm bored of it. I don't think Amen is a crutch, I think it's a homage, a hark back to the early days when Breakcore first cropped up. Intertextuality yes?

If you still want to wet the bed and flame everyone on here as you always do then nobody is ultimately going to care, you can throw the toys out the pram as much as you like, but people will continue to use the Amen Break because:

A: Vast quantities of proto-Breakcore music used it.

B: Vast quantities of first generation Breakcore music used it. And

C: Vast quantities of Breakcore music from the past 10 years to present has and continues to use it.

In spite of this I know I won't change your mind, and I know your only REAL interest is trying to respond with the cockiest comment instead of making a valid contribution to the discussion. Ultimately, the sad fact is that folk like Empire did push forward the genre whether you like it or not, and you didn't.

But maybe we can make things ok, maybe you can upload some of your banging new tracks, the totally unique never before heard ones, and then we can start a huge thread all about you and talk about what a really interesting person you are.

[somebedroomdj Profile Website]

I guess what it boils down to is whether it was the sounds or the ethic. Because really, you could say it started with punk. Same attitude just a different musical expression, imo.

But in all honesty, as much as I can't stand Alec Empire, DHR had to be the first instance where you could really draw an obvious line.

But wherever breakcore started, I hate it.

[pimperteen Profile Website]

listen toots,

1, i gives a fuck about any general public likes or dislikes, it's the fellow producers using a break that is broke to death that has annoyed me.

(... *snip* ...)

:emoticon of you kissing my right ass cheek:

GTFO with yer stfu, obviously i wasn't boring enough for you to fall asleep and not reply to my post.

I take it all back. You're really, really good at the internet! That emoticon stuff was so cool.

[producer_snafu Profile Website]

yeah, some say it was alec empire, he originated the lazy use of using the amen break in every track

Two things you need to realise sweetheart:

1) The listening "public" don't give a shit which god damn break you use
2) It's not what you use, but how you use it. An adage I thought you might appreciate, no?

Oh and stfu about the amen break already you're as boring as it is.

listen toots,

1, i gives a fuck about any general public likes or dislikes, it's the fellow producers using break that is broke to death that has annoyed me.

no one i know is doing anything new that Remark, Dylan, Tech Itch, Squarepusher, Venetian Snares and The Flashbulb hasn't already done with the amen break.

:emoticon of you kissing my left ass cheek:

2. i don't appreciate most tracks that abuse the amen, as you may know i don't care for the amen and i feel it is used as a crutch.

there are thousands of breaks out there and everyone still wants to sound like breakcore made in the 90's that "most of the general public didn't even care for or give a fuck about.

not only are there thousands of breaks that are not the amen but there is also the option of making your own breaks with single shots.

but god forbid that right?

i mean who could even fathom the concept of doing so?

not You

:emoticon of you kissing my right ass cheek:


GTFO with yer stfu, obviously i wasn't boring enough for you to fall asleep and not reply to my post.

I don't believe anyone on here has doubted the contributions of the afore mentioned artists in re-working the Amen Break. However, your jihad against that one specific break IS tiresome, particularly because people will continue to use the Amen, precisely because people like it. You might not enjoy it but clearly others do. Yes, it crops up in hundreds of new songs every day, but then so do countless other breaks, kicks, samples and techniques.

I'll confess, rarely do I hear new Breakcore that is genuinely pushing forward a new idea, but then why should it have to? It's like saying rock music sucks because they're still using guitars, therefore I'm going to declare holy war on all guitar music because I'm bored of it. I don't think Amen is a crutch, I think it's a homage, a hark back to the early days when Breakcore first cropped up. Intertextuality yes?

If you still want to wet the bed and flame everyone on here as you always do then nobody is ultimately going to care, you can throw the toys out the pram as much as you like, but people will continue to use the Amen Break because:

A: Vast quantities of proto-Breakcore music used it.

B: Vast quantities of first generation Breakcore music used it. And

C: Vast quantities of Breakcore music from the past 10 years to present has and continues to use it.

In spite of this I know I won't change your mind, and I know your only REAL interest is trying to respond with the cockiest comment instead of making a valid contribution to the discussion. Ultimately, the sad fact is that folk like Empire did push forward the genre whether you like it or not, and you didn't.

But maybe we can make things ok, maybe you can upload some of your banging new tracks, the totally unique never before heard ones, and then we can start a huge thread all about you and talk about what a really interesting person you are.

this is the last time i am gonna retort to any amen comment in this thread, if you wanna go off topic again then i suggest you take it to the amen break thread or the wtf is the amen break thread.

my original comment was just a joke, i should have used italic fonts for you to have got the hint that i was being sarcastic. . .

if my comment about the amen break seem a bit anti to you then roll your eyes and don't reply to comments, it's that simple, i have an opinion and i am sticking to it guy.

like i have said before in the wtf is the amen break thread

it took me a while to realize that the amen break is not only a sample but an element to music making like the 303 is to acid and 909 is to hardcore and the 808 is to hip hop.

but god fucking damn, all those synths are tools for sequencing.

imagine making a song with the same sample over and over and never doing anything innovative with it. . . . that's the amen break for you.

i in no way think i am better than anyone else that does or doesn't use it man if that's what yer getting to.

i just encourage the will to expand the limits that have been reached and break them.

repeating history is not gonna get ya anywhere.

why do you think Aphex Twin is hugely respected these days.

because he thought outside the box and still people to this day have yet to surpass his brilliant melodically production.

not many of his tracks use the amen break but he has a few tracks that are of the breakcore element.

there is allot of great breakcore that don't use breaks at all man.

have you forgot about this demographic?

noise, sound fx distorted drums etc.

i know alec empire is a pioneer in there movement of breakcore, do i like his music? not my cup of tits but it shouldn't matter to you man.

i need not to post my music because i really don't care if anyone thinks i am interesting or not, what i make doesn't reflect my personality at all.

but if you wanna hear some amazing breakcore with no amen break then you can make a thread about "how much of an interesting person AA Kurtz is"

AA Kurtz Live
http://www.mediafire.com/?2ym2yhzmn1r

AA.Kurtz -- I should have done this in 98.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/?04umpmyju0n

[matt bleak Profile Website]

correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am)
but I don't think the question is who invented breakcore, I think the question is: what is the question? nah, seriously: I think we should rather ask HOW breakcore developed until it was what it is now.

so here's my theory:
It was all a chain reaction, that started with The Winston's "Amen Brother" back then. Later, as the UK "Hardcore" (normal Break Beat) developed, someone started to sample the Amen Break, with developed to DnB. Later a crazy guy named Richard D. James (Wikipedia said, Aphex Twin was the first with those kind of drum programming) first who started to break the beats really hard and invented Drill 'n' Bass, while, at the same time, Alec Empire, DJ Scud and all the ther pre-breakcore artists started to combine break beat/drum 'n' bass with punk and hardcore (the real hardcore), and somehow drill 'n' bass also influenced the pre-breakcore artists. later, someone succesfully combined all those elements, and breakcore was born. and after that a certain guy named Aaron Funk showed up and he got the mascot of breakcore. maybe he should lend the costume from Mochipet.

crazy theory isn't it.

fuck this UK hardcore shite - not hating on that style, but just this idiotic notion that everything evolved from it!! like people weren't already sampling the amen break...a-la oh just some obscure track called 'Str8 Outta Compton' by NWA back in '88??? which imho is still the most evil / sinister sounding usage of the amen break of all time...i mean who doesn't wanna go out and flip over cop-cars and wreak absolute havoc when they hear that shit?? no disrespect to UK hardcore from back in the day - but hell UK freakin' HIPHOP back in the day was probably sampling the amen!! so i think yeah it starts with the amen, then maybe some ATTITUDE was picked up from punk (real HC punk mind you, none of that '77 poser shite!) and then came the hiphop which eventually mutated in your DNB, your UK hardcore and whatnot which got totally mutated into breakcore...or something...guess what i am saying is lets not overlook the crucial role that hip hop had to play in all of this!!!
*takes deep breath and goes for cigarette

[Dr. Bastardo Profile]

The UK hardcore/rave scene grew out of the UK hip hop scene. It was when hip hop producers and DJs started making music influenced by acid house and techno from the US in the late 80's that the rave sound started. They were trying to make house but with a hip hop production aesthetic. UK hardcore is important because it did spawn a bunch of different styles but most importantly pushed forward production techniques. Sure people were sampling breaks in Hip Hop but it was in the UK rave scene where people really started to edit them, mess with triggering, time stretch etc.

My question is who invented the term breakcore?